Interview: “The question lies in how much the HTS leaders are open for democracy” – Gherib Hasso, Democratic Union Party co-chair

Gherib Hasso – the new co-chair of the Democratic Union Party, one of the main political parties in North and East Syria – discusses options going forward for peace in Syria, prospects for dialogue with HTS and the issue of foreign forces in the country. The interview was conducted in Kurdish and has been shortened for length and lightly edited for clarity. 

RIC: How do you see the ongoing developments in Syria? Were you anticipating what occurred, and what are you now anticipating in the near future?

Hasso: The Syrian situation has captured the attention of the international community. The Syrian people have endured significant suffering as a result of this war, which was caused by an oppressive mentality; a nation-state mentality adopted by the Baath regime. The Baath regime ruled for 61 years, during which time they oppressed the Syrian people. They ruled the country with an iron fist; they ran the county with oppression.

When the [Syrian] revolution started, the international community wanted to take steps towards a solution. In the beginning, it was Resolution 2254 which aimed to resolve the Syrian revolution and to find a solution to the issue by solving it with the participation of the Opposition and the regime. Meetings between them were held under the sponsorship of the UN. However, these talks were not successful. Astana and Sochi summits also did not bring any solution. There were other attempts held in Moscow and Cairo. They all ended with failure. The regime did not have any project to solve the problem; their only project was to go back to before 2011. This was what the base of their project; to go the pre-revolution era. The Opposition also did not have much change to offer.

The situation in Syria is worrying because the oppressive regime has collapsed, but those who succeeded in overthrowing this regime are those with known criminal practices. Now the country is controlled by various powers. You have HTS, ISIS, factions supported by Turkey, and the SDF (which has the most stable region). In such a situation, the UN must intervene immediately, as well as the Arab League. But up to now there have been no such steps; just many statements. But if we leave it like this, the situation will not get better. The only external power that wants to interfere is Turkey, in order to shape the solution of the Syrian conflict based on its own interests. This is wrong. The UN, Arab League, US and Russia are required to interfere, block Turkey, and bring together all powers inside Syria to form a solution. An emergency meeting must be held and all powers must come together within it. SDF, HTS and all the powers that claim to have fought against Assad should come together. Even the coalition of the Opposition can come together. If we want to resolve this situation, this is the way to do it. A new resolution must also be formed.

We are here to express our support for peace and a solution that is satisfactory to all parties involved. It is imperative to ensure the protection of our people: to reach an agreement, hold meetings and achieve a resolution. This will facilitate the resolution of the regional displacement crisis. However, this requires guarantee from an international entity. Primarily, a ceasefire must be established. Subsequently, the people can return to their lands, enabling Syria to embark on a new era and history.

I see that the solution for Syria is to have intra-Syrian dialogue. The solution is to recognize all the components of the society and to grant all the peoples living in Syria their rights and to protect their values. Marginalizing minorities, people and their culture or religion will not help. There are different nations, religions and minorities that have protected their existence. So yes, the Syrian solution is related to the fulfilment of all these conditions so that we can bring our country to another level.

The conditions in which negotiations over the future of Syria are taking place have now completely changed. Has your approach changed in this time?

There were many initiatives to resolve this crisis, however they failed because they were always excluding the Kurds and NES region from the meetings. This in itself is a political crime and marginalization. The UN took a really weak position, despite appointing several convoys – the latest of whom is Pederson, who does not know what to do now. The most realistic solution for this crisis is our project, the project of the democratic nation. This is the only project that respects the values of the Syrian people.

The Syrian people have become exhausted over the course of the war, as have the mercenaries. It is possible that Turkey will not accept or permit the implementation of this project. However, it is evident that the majority of the population desire a realistic solution. It is our intention to facilitate a solution that will bring peace to the region. This is a goal that is shared by the DAANES. Nevertheless, it is challenging to convene the various parties engaged in the conflict. Consequently, there is a necessity for a neutral and international entity to facilitate dialogue and reconciliation among all parties. This will prevent the cycle of retaliation and antagonism that has characterized the region’s history.

Are you talking with the Kurdish National Council [ENKS]?

We have no issues with them. As previously stated, our position is one of openness and willingness to engage with any interested party. ENKS is a member of the coalition [SNC], which was formed to confront the regime. However, the collapse of the regime has rendered the coalition’s purpose moot. Consequently, there is no rationale for ENKS to remain in the coalition, or indeed any utility in doing so. For instance, if this coalition has reached an agreement regarding the status of our regions, it is unclear how these terms will be implemented in our regions, given that they have no control here. In order to facilitate understanding between us and the other parties to the agreement, and to unite the Kurdish front, we are open to dialogue. Indeed, we are not only open to dialogue but also to reaching an agreement.

You have relations with other political parties within Syria, outside of the North and East Syria Region. Do you see much acceptance or approval of your perspectives at the moment?

We were in contact with some parties inside Syria, in Damascus and Aleppo, as well as with individuals, politicians, intellectuals, in addition to all parties in NES – we have a strong relations with them. We were holding meetings and many would join us. We also have relations with Syrian parties and individuals that are active outside of Syria, for example in Egypt and Europe. There were many meetings that aimed to find a solution for the Syrian crisis that would be in accordance with democratic constitution and decentralized system. We agreed on many terms. The question lies, however, in how much the HTS leaders are open for democracy. This will become apparent when we hold meetings with them.

HTS has declared they will protect the rights of minorities and preserve Syria’s diversity, rejecting global jihad in favour of a national agenda. What do you make of this?

They have to. They have to make change. There is no use in demonstrating power and threatening. They have to change. There are alternatives. The democratic project is certainly the best alternative. HTS now controls large territories. They control Damascus. They have to soften their language. If they would not, the international community would turn against them. They are already on the terror list. Just talk is also not enough. They need to have a change in practice and grant all peoples their rights so that everyone takes their role in this political process. But if they only talk and in practice they don’t offer any change, then it is dangerous. Syria’s people have had enough of fooling, oppression and war tactics. They want real action.

Any solution must offer relief to the people who suffered years of war. The relief will come from trust; from peace and stability. The solution must relieve all segments of society, and this is based on giving people free will. And here, the role of women is really important. There are women who got educated and gained knowledge, capabilities and a democratic mentality. Through these years of war, there were many women who rose up. They can have a leading role – if they are not prevented from doing so and closed within their homes.

The Syrian Civil War has seen interventions from many foreign actors. How have their positions been impacted by the developments since November 27th?

Syria has become a battlefield of global actors looking out for their interests. The Middle East is a very broad region. A force that becomes hegemonic in the Middle East will be a worldwide hegemonic force as well. The US has been in the Middle East for a while, but Russia wasn’t. Russia and Iran entered the area and Iran became very influential. Turkey also wants to gain influence.

If the problems of Syria are solved through finding solutions internally, this is not according to Turkey’s interests. Turkey is losing its role in the region. This is why Turkey is threatening the peoples of Syria constantly. We didn’t threaten them. We were even finding common ground in Syria. For example, on the topic of Syria’s borders, we agreed. We are Syrians and we live here close to the border. Turkey is talking about us vacating the area within 30 kilometers from their border. How is that possible? Many times we requested an international force to come into the region to solve this problem, just as the case was with South Lebanon. The Turkish state is not accepting a solution like this because it would mean recognition of this region. I want to repeat this: we are open for proposals like this. International actors can ensure the security of the border region, so that Turkey’s security concerns can be addressed. Iran has lost, they do not have any interest anymore in this region, not in Syria, Lebanon or Palestine. Iran and Russia’s politics in the region ended.

Many call for all foreign forces to leave Syria. The SDF is partnered with the US here. US forces are present on the ground in NES. Do you think it is necessary that foreign forces leave the country?

The Coalition forces came here according to a UN resolution, and it is not only the US here: there are 81 states within the Coalition to combat ISIS. Until ISIS is defeated, there will be a threat. For example, there is al-Hol camp and other prisons that hold ISIS detainees. There are also ISIS sleeper cells. The situation of the Global Coalition is completely different to that of Turkey. Turkey got permission from whom to enter Syria? Iran came with the permission of the regime, because they were allies, as well as Russia. But now there is no Baath regime and they are leaving. So what is Turkey doing here? Turkey is an occupying state. The Coalition is not an occupying state, as it came in accordance with a UN resolution. When the occupation ends, Syria will have a chance to revive. The Coalition has pledged to stabilize the region, but Turkey? Turkey was against the regime. Now the regime is gone, so they have to leave. They have nothing to do here. Regarding the Coalition, they have limited time here, they already mentioned that they will leave by 2026. But Turkey does not announce any time for its withdrawal.